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Author Topic: puch clutch and 70cc reed kit questions  (Read 5216 times)

Darylol

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puch clutch and 70cc reed kit questions
« on: December 27, 2009, 09:51:14 PM »

I just bought the 3 shoe puch clutch off treats but they are out of the blue springs.  Does anyone have a good starting point for how tight to screw the clutches in? Like I read 360 out from tight on stock clutches and like 720 on race clutches with blue springs. As well as do the blue springs make much of a difference?

Also Kenden is thinking about buying the treats 70cc reed kit and I told him that i thought someone told me that they didn't fit on maxis because the intake hits the tank.  I could be totally wrong here but Just wondering if this is true or not and any knowledge if the kit blows or not or perhaps what kit its based off of?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2009, 10:03:22 PM by desperado »
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Motorcycle Justin

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Re: puch clutch and 70cc reed kit questions
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2009, 10:07:59 PM »

All the way in, then two turns out.

If you've got a gram scale, then dremel weight off each shoe; don't make them lighter than 55 (I think) grams each.
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Darylol

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Re: puch clutch and 70cc reed kit questions
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2009, 10:19:41 PM »

I do have scales haha I knew those would come in handy for something else.  does that give the effect of the blue springs or just help it engage later?
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Phil N.

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Re: puch clutch and 70cc reed kit questions
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2009, 11:05:43 PM »

Look at Motomatic's blog before you cut any clutch arms they have a great way of cutting it.  There is more shit on the MA wiki about Puch clutches.  another thing that sorta works is using a fish scale to find the same engagement, it worked for me but i think there is a better way.  Someone talked about using a pressure gauge to find even tension but I have yet to try it.  i think I had a thread going about this same shit on this site a few months back, if you can find it it could be benificial.
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Lindar

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Re: puch clutch and 70cc reed kit questions
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2009, 11:33:43 PM »

I tried the fish scale thing, and I didn't have much luck. I thought it was really hard to tell the difference between when you had fully engaged the arm and when you were just pulling the whole clutch down more on an already fully-engaged arm. I ended up going back to the "screw them in the same amount" thing, after I made sure (as best I could with a POS scale) that they weighed the same. However, Daryl, if you have a more accurate scale (lol) then you would be able to do that more accurately. The best clutch tuning thread I know of is the one Derek did, and that was for two shoe clutches. There's a machine that the guys overseas made for tuning clutches, which is shown <a href="http://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Clutch_tuning">here</a>. Obviously we don't have that machine, although I believe there are some suggestions for making a janky replica of that <a href="http://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/discuss/read.php?f=7&i=110844&t=110844">here</a>. IRE or Mid-Mo, I bet you guys could recreate that machine. Do it, then let us send you our clutches so you can tune them for us :)

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worthlessckfsht033

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Re: puch clutch and 70cc reed kit questions
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2009, 06:22:17 AM »

OK If we put a 3" pulley on the 1/2 hp 3450 RPM bench grinder
Use that to turn the 1" pulley on the buffing mandrel, that should develop 10350 rpm at the arbor.
there will be some loss (bearing drag, wind resistance, belt slippage), but there should be enough power leftover to turn at least 8000.
I also have a magnetic pickup, and a digital tach that can be programed to read 2 pulse's per revolution.
if we put a disc on the opposite side (of the mandrel) with the magnets attached somehow, then we wont have to rig something to the clutch itself.
I think 2 magnets is best to avoid a complex balancing issue.
the timing light would be a little more "trick", because it requires a spark to flash.
I have some super bright led's (real luxeon star's if you ever herd of them) that can be rigged to flash on a mag. pulse.
I cant help but say that this would all be simpler if we used an actual puch engine.

something else I noticed: a lamp dimmer would not handle the current necessary to spin any motor that fast.
harbor freight has a "router motor speed control" that would be suited to this task.
but I don't have one lying around.
I do have a variac autotransformer that may be up to the task.
I will have to see exactly what its power handling ability is.
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Garett

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Re: puch clutch and 70cc reed kit questions
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2009, 10:37:54 AM »

Here is a pretty long thread that we started about making one of these.

http://mopedstl.com/forum/index.php/topic,1838.msg18856.html#msg18856

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Phil N.

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Re: puch clutch and 70cc reed kit questions
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2009, 10:46:07 AM »

You really don't need those machines, although it would be nice to have.  All you have to do is adjust the clutch, throw it on, ride, decide if it sucks and depending on that ride some more or repeat the process. 
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Mike Pee

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Re: puch clutch and 70cc reed kit questions
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2009, 10:50:56 AM »

One of those machines would make life soooo easy.  And prevent us from shredding clutch pads.  I know I've shredded some in a very short amount of riding.  Cuttin gout the guesswork would be amazing.
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EuGene

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Re: puch clutch and 70cc reed kit questions
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2009, 11:01:07 AM »

This hillbilly just don't get it . . . why would the test jig need to turn at 10,000+ RPM.  Hell, if the clutch hasn't engaged by the time the motor was turning at its full rated 3,450 RPM, then I would be worring about the clutch not working.  You would surely have problems if the clutch had to turn at 10,000 RPM before it engaged - a two speed ped: (1) stopped, at anything less than 10,000 RPM (2) screaming at full bore, slipping like mad to stay at 10,000 RPM while it slowly brought the ped from a standstill up to speed (and burning up the clutch with one single use).  ??
« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 11:05:29 AM by EuGene »
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EuGene

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Re: puch clutch and 70cc reed kit questions
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2009, 11:08:59 AM »

On the other hand, a 10,000 RPM would be useful to test the clutch to see if it can either hold up at 10,000 RPM or blow to smithereens!  Smiff
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ire mark

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Re: puch clutch and 70cc reed kit questions
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2009, 11:37:12 AM »

I think the idea is to spin the engine up to where the pipe kicks in, and the same time as the clutch engages,,, and lean forward...
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EuGene

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Re: puch clutch and 70cc reed kit questions
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2009, 11:51:26 AM »

Yeah, Mark, but if the pipe and clutch don't hit it until some high RPMs, the clutch will burn up as it will have to slip to keep the revs up & keep the clutch engaged, all while trying to get the bike rolling and bring it up to speed - no amount of peddling is going to be of much help.  Smiff
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worthlessckfsht033

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Re: puch clutch and 70cc reed kit questions
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2009, 12:19:55 PM »

your missing my point.
I must have left something out!
I don't want to spin it to 10,000.
the plan was to use a speed control to get the rig up to whatever rpm youwanted (as long as it was under 10,000)
I was down there looking in my junk pile and noticed I had a 3", and a 1" pulley.
so I multiplied 3450X3 and got that number, it seemed like a good idea at the time. <--will be on headstone   
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worthlessckfsht033

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Re: puch clutch and 70cc reed kit questions
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2009, 12:34:32 PM »

Ok I skimmed the above mentioned thread, and here's what I learned:
my Dick went limp about half way down the first page, IF i had made it to the end i am sure that i would now be gay.
I don't even run E-50's I just thought it would be interesting to set up and try.
now I don't care.
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